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Hi Everyone,
On the 5th June, we are going to meet Mr Bill Rammell MP, Minister for Higher Education for a meeting to discuss the tuition fees issue for graduate medical students.
From this September, no graduate studying medicine will be eligible for a student loan to cover their tuition fees and will have to pay ?3000 per year themselves up front.
We are trying to get this changed and will let you know how the meeting goes.
To find out more, please go to:
http://www.medschoolsonline.co.uk/index.php?pageid=97
If you have any questions, please let us know.
Thanks,
Medschools Online
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Today, Bill Rammell contacted the BMA to say that he would have to postpone the meeting on the 5th June. He has offered us the 21st June instead, and we will let you know as soon as we know whether we can make this date. It may not be possible due to exam/work committments etc, but we will do our utmost to attend.
We will post any future progress on this forum.
Thanks,
Medschools Online
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On the 21st June 2006, we attended a meeting with Mr Bill Rammell MP, Minister for Higher Education. Present at the meeting were Jeremy Durston and Hannah Brotherstone from Medschools Online, Leo Smith (MSC rep for Southampton) and Kirsty Lloyd, Chair of the BMA Medical Students Committee (MSC).
The graduate fees issue was discussed and Mr Rammell has agreed to a second meeting to discuss this and other funding issues further. This second meeting should take place during July.
Whilst he hasn't made any committment to making graduate medical students eligible for student loans to cover their tuition fees, the fact that he proposed a follow up meeting so soon is very encouraging.
We will of course keep you all updated regarding any future developments - please check our forum regularly, and feel free to post questions!
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Did you manage to meet with Bill Rammell, and if so is there any hope at all for a fees loan for graduates starting in 6 weeks' time?!
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Hi Everyone,
Leo Smith, Southampton's excellent MSC rep attended a second meeting with Bill Rammell a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, neither Hannah nor I (from Medschools Online) were able to attend as we were both in Ghana on an ophthalmology elective. However, Leo has given me the following information about what happened. I'm afraid the news isn't good.
Bill Rammell has personally decided that graduates studying medicine will NOT be eligible for loans to cover their tuition fees. Therefore those on 4-year courses will have to pay ?3000 up front in their first year and those on 5-year courses will have to pay ?3000 up front for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th years of the course.
He justified this with the following arguments:
1) he stated that the socio-economic demographics of those applying to study medicine as a second degree hadn't changed for 2006 (i.e. those from poorer background were not being put off from applying to study medicine despite the increase in tuition fees). We argued that most applicants didn't know that they would not be eligible for student loans when they applied, therefore the statistics are unreliable. In addition, medicine is already dominated by those from the wealthiest backgrounds and this policy does nothing to help reverse this trend.
2) He also indicated that there was sufficient private finance available from commercial banks so graduate students should borrow this money from the private sector. We think that this money is insufficient for most people to live off, particuarly once they have paid their fees.
3) He says the cost of providing student loans is still considerable (apparently they make a loss), so priority is given to those who haven't yet had the chance to experience higher education. We suggested that they increase the interest rate for graduate medical students so that the government doesn't lose money. Apparently this would require a legislative change and would never get on to the agenda in parliament, so is unviable.
Bill Rammell has offered a permanent position on the Professions Group, which he chairs, which will monitor the impact of tuition fees on access to the medical profession. Either one of us or a BMA MSC rep will sit on this committee.
We have also requested the UCAS statistics that he used to argue that the demographics of medical students haven't changed. We will then analyse them to see if what he says is true.
We are also planning on contacting some of the main high street banks to see whether they would be prepared to increase the amount they will lend to graduate medical students.
We are also raising this issue with Sarah Teather (Lib Dem, Education) and Boris Johnson (Conservative, Higher Education)
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but on the plus side the petition has enabled us to get two face to face meetings with the minister for higher education, so even on that level, making your voices heard has had some impact, even if it is just that the polititians sit up and take notice that we are here and our views should be taken seriously.
If you have any questions about any of the above, please post them here.
Thanks,
Medschools Online
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Hi, I had a query mailed to me - below. I thought it might help to post it up here....
Hello,
I'm just looking for some information. I have completed an arts degree but circumstances in my personal life have led me to the decision that I wish to pursue a medical career. I am now making efforts to get the right qualifications for entry into medical in the future along with gaining experience in hospitals.
However I have noticed that as a graduate student I will not be eligible for support for my tuition fees and will have to pay the full ?3070 up front. I have been on the graduate fees campaign forum and have noticed that discussion on the matter appears to have ceased in August of 2006. I would like to know if efforts with this campaign are ongoing, in the form of discussion with the Minister for Higher Education, and if any progress being made Or is this a closed matter as far as Bill Rammel is concerned?
Secondly, I would like to know what is meant by "up front". Does this mean that as a graduate I would have to pay the full ?3070 at the start of each year in a single payment, or does it simply mean that graduates will not have the luxury of paying for the course after they have completed their medical degree.
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This is my response:
Hi,
Yes, I'm afraid we did what we could but Bill Rammell decided that there was no evidence that people would not apply on the basis of fees. We don't have time to mount another campaign (we're now final yr), but would obviously support it if someone else decided to pursue the issue again.
I think you have to pay fees up front each year, although you might be able to pay in installments throughout the year, I'm not sure. You definitely would have to pay the full amount by the end of each year.
The best option would be to apply to a 4 year course. Although disillusioned applicants will tell you that these courses are too competetive, some of them are LESS competetive than 5 year courses (although, to be fair, they tend to be the science grad courses). If you do a 4 year course, you only have to pay one year of fees, so you save ?9,000+ (all courses have their fees paid from the 5th year), as well as a year less at uni - with living expenses and loss of earnings that's probably another ?20-30,000 saved!
It might take a couple of attempts to get in, but I think a graduate course is worth it for the money you save, as well as the style of course.
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Hi there everyone, if you (English) guys and gals think its rough to pay for your first year of tuition fees on a 4 year course, try doing it for the WHOLE of the course...
Does anyone have an experience of being a graduate from Northern Ireland doing a 4-year grad course in England and not being a billionaire??
If so, do you think there any chance of getting hold of the NHS bursary for years 2-4(usually based on living in England), or indeed student loans from our LEA so that poverty isn't a neccessary prerequisite for Northern Irish students looking to study medicine after their first degree?
Help and advice would be appreicated.
Phil.
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